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MONK DIARY
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Autor:  mrynar [ 2 wrz 2006, 18:48 ]
Tytuł:  MONK DIARY

Bede tu wklejal rozne informacje na temat mojego sprzetu, skilli, dmg itp
Wbrew pozorom granie monkiem to nie tylko stanie za plecami moba i napierdalanie. :D
Moze kogos to zainteresuje.

GUARD

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Wreszcie mam 200+! Kto nie gral monkiem czy pupem ten nie wie jaki to jest bol, szczegolnie, ze na codzien monk nie ma zbyt wielu okazji do bycia z mobami twarza w twarz. Pozostaje solo, albo duele np. z zona lekarzem. :D

Przy skillu 260+ (ze sprzetem) bloki zdarzaja sie juz dosc czesto na mobach EP, czasem 2-3 pod rzad. Przy guardzie dostaje mniej wiecej 2/3 normalnego ciosu.

Sprzet mam zmaksowany do guarda: +56 (+4 mam z meritow) . Taki setup nadaje sie oczywiscie tylko do skillowania.
EDIT: moglbym jeszcze +2 wyciagnac z AF2+1 feet.

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Autor:  Gli2duS [ 2 wrz 2006, 20:14 ]
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that's suxxx! MNK ma większe EVA niż PLD !! Opi, ale twoje Parrying suxx ;P

Autor:  mrynar [ 2 wrz 2006, 20:34 ]
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Bo parrying nie dzial z hand-to-hand. To co mam to z subow.

Autor:  egoist [ 3 wrz 2006, 04:48 ]
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hmm monki maja nie najgorsze eva. niny maja nie duzo wiecej. spruboj kiedys skonczyc /nin opi i potestuj wtedy jak ci idzie solowanie takich DC np czy T

Autor:  mrynar [ 3 wrz 2006, 08:21 ]
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Lesiu --> NIN zrobie, jasne, ale MNK/NIN to banal, nie mial bym oczym pisac. :D Poza tym przy /NIN warto troche inaczej merity powkladac niz ja mam.

Przy cieniach nie dziala counter, a to dla mnie w tej chwili dodatkowy dmg jakies 20-30% na mobie. /WAR to tez zawsze troche dmg wiecej. Poza tym puluje voke i chi na zmiane, a czasem jednoczesnie (szczegolnie w nowych krainach :) ). Kiedys pebblami rzucalem, ale od kiedy wyrzucilem jajko to juz tego unikam. :)

Z DC mobami solo tez w tej chwili nie mam problemu. Z Anc to oczywiscie bijemy od T do VT bez problemu. IT tez, ale to juz dlugo trwa i sie nie oplaca na wiekszosci mobow.

Pewnie gdybym nie mial prywatnego lekarza :), to bym bardziej szanowal swoje HP i chodzil z NIN zazwyczaj.

Autor:  mrynar [ 4 wrz 2006, 11:58 ]
Tytuł: 

Zajebisty post znalazlem (nawet go jeszcze nie zdazylem przeanalizowac):

Easy H2H Mathematics For Monks V1.0

Well, here it is. This is my (Humble) attempt at making as clear and concise an outline of H2H damage mechanics as possible. I hope you find it useful and informative, and that these stripped-down formulae are not only comprehensive, but more easily comprehensible than previous attempts at this task.

Inx. (Easter '06)



1. Overview

When we hit an enemy, a calculation is made that stripped down to its most basic form looks like this:

Unit_Damage x Damage_Multiplier = Per_Fist_Damage

That’s it.


The value Unit_Damage is the sum of 3 smaller values drawn from current H2H skill, Weapon Damage rating, and the amount of STR you have compared to the VIT of whatever you are hitting.

I’ll explain exactly how this is calculated later, but for now just assume that Unit_Damage can only vary between 3 and 63 dependant upon level and gearing.

The Damage_Multiplier is calculated by comparing player ATK vs mob DEF, and is a fractional value that normally calcs out between 0.0, and 3.0. Under certain circumstances this can rise to up to 5.0, but I’ll get to criticals and other adjustments later on.

It seems very probable that the normal random “dice-roll” variance that causes our shot damage to fluctuate is applied purely to the Damage_Multiplier, as the Unit_Damage sits in a very small range of integers (whole numbers), whereas the multiplier goes to at least one decimal point.

It’s extremely likely that all weapon attacks in the game work this way, radically different results can be achieved by simply tweaking the way the Unit_Damage is composed in conjunction with other combat properties like attack delay and accuracy.




2. Calculating Unit_Damage

Unit_Damage has 3 basic components:

H2H Skill based Damage (iH2H). This is defined as floor(h2h_skill/10). So basically take your current H2H skill rating, divide it by 10 and lose the decimal points.

iH2H sits in a range between 0 and 29.

Weapon Property Damage (iWPD). This is even easier, just take the +Damage value on your weapon and add 3 to it. Barefist is equivalent to a +0 damage weapon.

iWPD sits in a range between 3 and 26.

STR bonus (iSTRB). Unlike the preceding values, iSTRB is calculated on a per-fist basis by subtracting the target’s VIT from the player’s STR. As this is a bonus, should the STR-VIT result in a negative value, iSTRB will be 0.

iSTRB sits in a range between 1 and 13, regardless of how much STR you have because there is a cap on this bonus.

The iSTRB Cap is defined as follows: 8+ floor(iH2H/9) + floor(iWPD/9). I’ll return to this later.

So to get our Unit_Damage we simply add all these things up:

Unit Damage (iUD) = iH2H + iWPD + iSTRB.

So, currently our maximum possible iUD is 68. Assuming you had h2h skill >290, were toting a pair of Spharai, and got maximum iSTRB bonus.

More likely, wearing Destroyers you’ll end up with a highly respectable iUD 63 at endgame.



3. The Damage Multiplier

Previous articles defining H2H damage mechanics normally refer the variable that is used to multiply out the unit damage by a factor that is the ratio of PLYR ATK to MOB DEF, pDif for some reason. This seems a pretty meaningless label to me, so I’m going to bin it in favor of the more sensible (imho) fADM!

This is because it’s a floating-point Attack Damage Multiplier.

Before going any further its worth pointing out that while the basic workings of this half of the damage calculations are well understood, the precise detail is not. Much of what is stated from this point onward is highly speculative beyond defining the overall principle of what is believed to happen. Anyway, I’ll try and deal with the various gray areas in the following section.

fADM as noted previously is a floating point value that is used to multiply up the iUD. It’s basic formulation is rooted in the ratio of PLAYER ATK vs MOB DEF; therefore you’d expect a situation where a player with 500 ATK hitting a mob with 250 DEF to resolve a fADM of 2.0.

There are 3 further factors that modify the fADM value:

1. Dice Roll: The random variance that is applied to this value in order to create a more naturalistic sequence of actions.

2. Critical Hits: A critical hit adds a straight +1.0 to fADM.

3. Weapon Type to Mob Type Affinity: Using blunt weapons versus bones and slimes results in extremely different results.

Once these are factored in, a final cap is applied to fADM. Under normal circumstances the limit for fADM is 3.0, however Weapon Affinities can raise this value up to a maximum of 5.0, although this peak can only reach that high under very specific circumstances.

Once fADM is finally calculated, we are ready to define our final hit damage:

iFinal_Damage = floor(iUD*fADM);

And there we are.



4. The Gray Areas: A discussion

We’re going to get into some murky stuff here, be warned tech heavy detail ahead!

While the series of operations described to this point is generally agreed upon, the exact calculation behind of fADM is unknown. A key problem is that much of the work on this has been done by working backwards from analyzing the size of maximum critical-hit damage for various weapons. In short, we have observed the hard-limits, but know less about how damage is dispersed in the low-to-mid range.

Historically SE have always been vague about the workings of this system, merely describing STR as setting the range of a damage “curve” while ATK sets the point along the “curve”. The foregoing agrees with this, but disregards the spread of damage as having any sort of curvature whatsoever.

Simply assigning fADM as PLYR_STR/MOB_DEF resolves a linear ratio, which begs the question that there is more to this conversion than we currently understand, but what could it be?

This may seem like a minor point but it in fact is crucial to the conclusions we should draw: in a linear conversion loading up on ATK will never suffer diminishing returns until the cap limit is hit at which point only a more favorable weapon affinity can increase damage. In a curved system the benefit of ATK will vary according to the bigger picture, with the improvement “flattening” towards the high-end of fADM (2.0-3.0).

In this respect a good question to ask is whether the “dice-roll” is of a consistent magnitude, or is scaled it according to the fADM result? In simple terms does the randomizer multiply the fADM or does it just add/subtract a certain amount to/from the total?

Another question is the order in which the fADM modifiers are applied. My suspicion is that the 3.0 cap is applied before the Weapon Affinity modifier, but after Crit Hit is factored in. Anecdotal evidence for this was drawn from scoring consistent 0’s against ultra high def mobs, but an exact +1.0 fADM from a critical hit. Similarly in SW Appolyon (the special weapon-type affinity Limbus area) I’ve experienced 0 crits on super resistant slimes, while getting 5.0 fADM super-crits on susceptible mobs (315 max crit with Destroyers).

To recap, I believe the order looks something like this:

fADM= ((ratio(P_ATK,M-DEF, RANDOM)+CRIT)&3.0)+WPN_AFFINITY_MOD

This analysis would suggest that WPN affinities are physically added to the fADM value, rather than being secondary multipliers as I initially thought.



5. Conclusions

ATK is more effective than STR at raising damage.

The most you can ever gain from STR is a iUD bonus of 13, or +39 from an unadjusted max crit.

If you are using a low damage weapon (< +8 DMG) STR is very important however as iSTRB is a proportionately larger component of your iUD than your weapon.

For damage improvement only H2H ratings in multiples of 10 counts. Also, iUD improves only at 2 and 7 merit levels respectively).

Crit Rate is king. If you’re serious about damage, merit this first.

To increase beyond its current max of 63, iUD H2H skill >300, or a +24 dmg weapon will need to be made available.



6. Credits

This text is the result of many people’s hard work, the overall knowledge-base on the h2h calc has been built up over a long time and many hours of mental effort and investigation. There truly are too many people to name. That said, I’d particularly like to thank BastokFL for his work in unraveling the “magic 13” (iSTRB), which was for me anyway, the last piece of the puzzle.

Appendices and corrections/additions will be added in due course.

Autor:  mrynar [ 4 wrz 2006, 12:08 ]
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Do tego krytyczna odpowiedz:

Ouch...in my opinion it's so much easier to read as (D + fSTR) * PDIF, but to each his own.

Quote:
STR bonus (iSTRB). Unlike the preceding values, iSTRB is calculated on a per-fist basis by subtracting the target’s VIT from the player’s STR. As this is a bonus, should the STR-VIT result in a negative value, iSTRB will be 0.

It's not straight subtraction. It's a function that takes into account your DMG, STR, and the mob's VIT. It generally takes 4 STR or so to increase fSTR or iSTRB, however you want to call it, by 1. fSTR starts to increase sooner (even to the point that you can have an fSTR of 1 with negative STR compared to the mob's VIT,) with weapons of higher DMG. There's no easy way to calculate fSTR, but Apple Pie (a.k.a. Grendal) left us with this general formula for *estimating* it: (Player's STR - Enemy's VIT + 4)/4.

Quote:
3. Weapon Type to Mob Type Affinity: Using blunt weapons versus bones and slimes results in extremely different results.
Once these are factored in, a final cap is applied to fADM. Under normal circumstances the limit for fADM is 3.0, however Weapon Affinities can raise this value up to a maximum of 5.0, although this peak can only reach that high under very specific circumstances.


Weapon vs Mob modifiers are not part of PDIF or fADM. They're a percentage applied at the end. Attack/Defense caps out at 2.0, at which point the random variance can be from -0.4 to +0.4, giving PDIF a max value of 2.4 under normal circumstances. Criticals add +1.0 to it, but PDIF cannot exceed 3.0. I.e. having ATK/DEF capped at 2.0, and getting a critical on a hit where the random number was +0.2 will result in a PDIF of 3.0, not 3.2.

Quote:
While the series of operations described to this point is generally agreed upon, the exact calculation behind of fADM is unknown.

PDIF/fADM is simply (Attack/Defense + Random). There is no diminishing returns; however, PDIF (note that I'm making a distinction here by specifying PDIF and not Attack/Defense) isn't linear, because the range of the Random value isn't always even. At some points you may have a range of, say, -0.3 to +5.0, or you may have a range of -0.5 to +0.3. Its range depends on your Attack/Defense ratio. See this graph to see how that range varies. It's pretty old and a bit inaccurate, but it's accurate enough.

Quote:
ATK is more effective than STR at raising damage.

STR is better than Attack point-per-point, it's just that Attack is easier to get in larger ammounts.

Regarding the credits: I believe the formula was developed by Studio Gobli.

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Autor:  mrynar [ 26 sie 2008, 20:51 ]
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Reaktywacja topica.

Lesiu --> MNK/NIN jest rzeczywiscie fajny. Nawet cieni nie trzeba liczyc, bo dzieki counterowi jest mala szansa, ze mob mnie trafi juz zejdzie NI, a nie ma jeszcze wrzuconego ICHI.

Dzis farmowalem dhalmel hide do skillowania leather i pomyslalem, ze skocze z sentymentu na nasz stary exp spot (pozdro dla ludzi ze statica). ;) Hide zadne nie wypadlo, ale byl nawet niezly exp (bez ringa):


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Autor:  mrynar [ 26 sie 2008, 23:48 ]
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Dzis dostalem brakujacy item do mojego MND setu:

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Autor:  Scorpio [ 27 sie 2008, 00:14 ]
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OMG, cześć dziadku.
Gdzieś pisałeś z 2-3miechy temu ze juz do Finala nie wrócisz... zapaliłem kaganek pamięci, by pożegnać wielkiego wojownika, a tu ding.
Opik znów szaleje i wali moby deseczką !!!

Gratz !!!

Autor:  mrynar [ 27 sie 2008, 11:12 ]
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FF wciagnal mnie ze zdwojona sile.

Zreszta SE sie stara i sensowne zmiany wprowadza.

Autor:  Gli2duS [ 27 sie 2008, 13:18 ]
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mrynar napisał(a):
Zreszta SE sie stara i sensowne zmiany wprowadza.


poczekaj niech to Simi przeczyta ;P

Autor:  Slayerek [ 27 sie 2008, 15:55 ]
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przeczytałem i myślę że SE powinno wprowadzić karciankę do ffxi gdzie można by grać z innymi i z mobkami zamiast opcjonalnie np. walczyć, karty wygrane można by sprzedawać na AH, wymieniać na punkty, EXP, merity, sprzęt itd. + można by sprzedawać na allegro (niech mają szansę na zakup pracujący w realu też a nie pracujący w finalu), każdy mobek dropował by losowo karty po zabiciu niezależnie od gatunku i od lvlu co nie powodowałoby stania X godzin przed popem określonych mobków a jakość karty zależałaby np. w 50% od dmg'u zadanego w momencie zabicia mobka :D i w 50% od długości walki :D (to możemy jeszcze ustalić 8) )
to byłaby dopiero zmiana, czy sensowna to nie wiem, podobno większość graczy nadal lubi się zbierać 2h na króciutkie eventy, zapominać o medsach, bić 3 lata tego samego mobka prawie każdego dnia itd.
(ja wybrałem fatalnie bo blm jest jak chodząca zaraza całe życie w tej samej czapce, MNK już nie będę, nie dożyję czasów żeby zebrać sprzęt)
ewentualnie mogliby dodać grę planszową gdzie postaciami byliby gracze z odpowiednimi jobami i levelami a przeciwnikami wiadomo znerfowanie mobki, królowa w postaci Vrtry i cała zabawa na ustalaniu strategii byłaby na pewno ciekawsza niż głupie walenie mobków w głowę przez 5 lat

Autor:  mrynar [ 27 sie 2008, 16:29 ]
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Slayerek napisał(a):
ja wybrałem fatalnie bo blm jest jak chodząca zaraza całe życie w tej samej czapce,


haha

Simi ownuje.

Autor:  Bartelius [ 28 sie 2008, 18:42 ]
Tytuł: 

mrynar napisał(a):
FF wciagnal mnie ze zdwojona sile.

Zreszta SE sie stara i sensowne zmiany wprowadza.


To dlaczego Cie nie am od 3 dni? !!!
RNG 19 gotowy do akcji!

Autor:  Caspian [ 1 wrz 2008, 09:47 ]
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Z cap na H2H masz jeszcze jakies missy np na merit party?? Ja osobiscie wolalbym nie miec problemow z ACC a zamiast sushi zjadac food jak np navarin ktory dziala dlugo i skutecznie. Niestety poki co mam duzo miss wiec trzymam sie sushi ; ;
Jaka jest najskuteczniejsza kombinacja - aby uniknac braku ACC i miec naprawde dobry ATT ???

Autor:  mrynar [ 1 wrz 2008, 10:12 ]
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Wszystko zalezy od sprzetu i mobow, ktore sie bije.
Czesto bije w sprzecie na counter, a on nie ma zadnych bonusow do acc i wtedy musze jesc sushi.
Przy dobrym sprzecie na acc (pikok, torreadory itp) mozna na luzie jesc food na att na wiekszosci mobow (nie liczac HNMow typu kirin).

Osobiscie w 90% przypadkow jem mimo wszystko sushi, ale to dlatego, ze nie chce mi sie experymentowac i potem przez 3h wkurwiac, ze missuje. Moze jak kupie drugiego torreadora i pikoka to bede bardziej odwazny.

Autor:  Bartelius [ 1 wrz 2008, 12:37 ]
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no wiec drogi Caspianie ja jem tylko meat na mnk :) ( omg jestem odwazniejszy niz Opi? :D ) h2h merity oczywiscie 8/8 no to teraz maly wykladzik bo mam dwie godziny do egzaminu :)
Na poczatek powiem, ze ja sie bawie srzetem a nie foodem w zaleznosci d tego gdzie jestem i co gra BRD:
Colibry Merit BRD march + minuet:
Head: Hissho hachimaki acc +8 att +8 ( w czasie focus zmieniam czasem na walahre haste +5%, ale WS zawsze w HH)
Ammo: Black Tathlum acc +4,5 att +4
Body: Shura acc +10 att +20
Hands: AF2 att +16
Ear1: Brutal
Ear2: Etheral att +5
Ring1: Iota ring acc +4,5
Ring2: Rajas acc+ 2,5 att +2,5
Neck: Chiva acc +5 att +1,5
Back: Amemet +1 att +16
Waist: Black belt att +3,5 haste +12%
Legs: Byakko Haidate acc +7,5 haste +5%
Feet: Fuma Haste +3% lub dune boots

razem ( Walahra | HH )
acc +29 | acc +37
att +68,5 | att +76,5
haste +25% | haste +20%

Przy takich ustawieniach bez focusa zdaza sie missnac z focusem raczej nie.
Upgrady jakie zamierzam tu dodac to
Head: Usukane full time acc +7 att +1,5 haste +3%
Neck: Faith toque acc +6 att +6
Back: Forager att +16,5
Feet: Usukane acc +7 att +7 haste +2%

po upg bedzie:

acc +44
att +82
haste +22%

Przed upgradem jesli brd spiewa madrigal + minuet to zazwyczaj urzywam wtedy walahry full time do tp a HH tylko do Wsow.
Merity na Mamolach to juz inna zabawa i szczerze mowiac na mamolach merituje zazwyczaj DRK z powodu braku przedmiotow dzieki ktorym moglbym spokojnie bic mamole MNK z meat. z takim sprzetem jak na colibry nawet przy madrigalu zdazalo mi sie missowac thf mamola z 6 rund z rzedu ( 12+ missow ). Tu trzeba jesc sushi co znacznie zmniejsza dmg. Dla luzakowego bicia mamoli potrzebowalbym:
Usukane set + faith torque i wtedy macrowalbym full usukane set lub usukane set + byakko haidate ( +52,5 - 60 acc_w zaleznosci od jobu mamola ktorego bije dodatkowo przydalby sie jeszcze 2 x toreadory wtedy na thf mamola dla max +67acc, a nawet diabolos earring zamiast etheral dla acc+70. dopoki tego nie bede mial nie bawie sie z mamolami MNK jesli moge DRKiem :)
Btw jak trafiasz Mamol THF z dobrym procentem to trafiasz wszystko prawie. Na limbusie, dynamisie, salvage itp. ubieram sie jak na colibry i operuje sobie walahra i HH w zaleznosci od mojego acc.
Chyba wszystko.

Autor:  mrynar [ 1 wrz 2008, 13:09 ]
Tytuł: 

Hissho Hachimaki - calkiem fajna rzecz! Za ktorym razem ci wypadla?
(musze poogladac dropy z ZNMow...)

Ja merituje specyficznie i niestety nigdy nie gram z bardem (wyjatek to czas kiedy mialem Drakanta :D ), ale za to jakos tam rosnie mi guard.

Jak inni melee zgadzaja sie na madrigala to mozna na luzie jesc att food.
Chyba korzystniejszy jest zestaw madrigal + att food niz minuet + acc food. March + haste od maga = masakra ze strony monka, wiec warto zawsze prosic o march.
Jak mawial Surtur jest jedna rzecz lepsza od BRDa - dwoch BRDow.

BTW moze sie umowimy w trojke na klasyczne polskie monk party w KRT?

Autor:  Caspian [ 1 wrz 2008, 14:08 ]
Tytuł: 

Wielkie dzieki za info /bow. No wlasnie ostatnio tak mialem ze missowalem strasznie na Mamolach i glupio mi bylo :P Ze sprzetu marzy mi sie O - Hat. Wtedy z pikokiem i pierscionkiem mialbym juz tak +25 ACC co daje calkiem sporo. Body zmienilem z SH na Osode wiec tak z 12 acc zeszlo, i taka copka bylaby niezla podmianka, niestety chetnych na O - Hata malo... :(
Jeszcze raz dzieki za info - sprzet godny pozazdroszczenia Ato ^^

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